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Vice Presidency sux

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Gunslinger

Posts: 180

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:26 am

Post Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:28 pm

Vice Presidency sux

My friend is far better at explaining this, as he explained it to me, so I'm just gonna copy and paste our conversation in here.

Friend A
Why? Its a win win for you. He loses and he's out of congress. He wins and he is banished to the sad irrelivency of the vice presidency

7:16pm
Brandon A Cox
I like to think the Vice Presidency is somewhat more relevant... but I suppose that is a good point. Him breaking ties in the Senate could end poorly for decisions passing through there

7:37pm
Friend A
I am so glad you said that, because the vice presidency is one of my favorite topics

7:38pm
Brandon A Cox
oh yay

7:38pm
Friend A
14 vice presidents have become president
Of those, 6 did not arise by accidency (the death or resignation of a former president)

7:39pm
Brandon A Cox
Wow, that's a lot more dead or resigned presidents than I had thought.
Three assassinated, one quit, Harrison of pneumonia, Taylor of food poisoning... who else?

7:40pm
Friend A
Four assassinated

7:40pm
Brandon A Cox
Four? Lincoln, McKinley, Kennedy?

7:41pm
Friend A
Garfield
Then FDR and Harding

7:41pm
Brandon A Cox
I always forget about Garfield.
Anyway, go on.

7:41pm
Friend A
Excuse me, earlier I meant 5 did not arise by accidency
Two of those were renowned statesmen, and the only reason they languished in the vice presidency is because of the way electoral voting worked before the passage of the twelfth amendment

7:42pm
Brandon A Cox
Adams, Jefferson?

7:42pm
Friend A
Yes

7:42pm
Brandon A Cox
Bam, what do you I do know history
what do you know,*

7:43pm
Friend A
One of the remaining three used his tenure as vice president to get into the presidency, but it did not launch him in. He had to wait 8 years after his first presidential run, which came while he served as vice president
to become president

7:44pm
Brandon A Cox
No idea.

7:44pm
Friend A
So the number of presidents who used the vice presidency to directly launch themselves into the presidency is a whopping 2. George H.W. Bush and Martin Van Buren
Nixon, by the way

7:45pm
Brandon A Cox
Always forget he was a VP.
Van Buren was also essentially directly supported by the incumbent president who a whole lot of people loved.

7:46pm
Friend A
Yea, except the Indians

7:46pm
Brandon A Cox
Well they didn't count

7:48pm
Friend A
But more to the point, John Adams once called the vice presidency a 'Splendid Misery," and it was not until Nixon that the vice president began to take an active role in political affairs. You should recall that Truman was not even aware of the development of the atomic bomb

7:49pm
Brandon A Cox
Wow, I actually didn't know that

7:49pm
Friend A
Nixon's power rose because he was known as a huge communist fighter who was able to concern himself with partisanship so Eisenhower could maintain his role above the messy fray of politics

7:50pm
Brandon A Cox
"Wait, we're doing WHAT? Fucking FDR, you just love screwing with me don't you, even after you're dead."

7:51pm
Friend A
Since then the power of the vice president has risen slightly, they now have a seat on the National Security Council and some other responsibilities, but what remains is the two main somewhat constitutional(thats a whole other story) duties of the vice president: To assume the office of the presidency in case of a vacancy of office and to cast tie breaking votes in the senate
The first happens infrequently, and actually has, despite the fact that we have not had an office vacancy in nearly 40 years, has grown slightly in importance as the vice president works in officio of the president during routine operations like colonoscopies. With the way the terror network is at the moment, that could potentially be dangerous, but the window for an attack would not be reasonably large enough. However it is important to have a vice president who can take the reigns
We will come back to that in a second
As far as the second is concerned, in the 223 years of constitutional government, a vice president has had to break tie votes 244 times, by 35 vice presidents(remember Biden is 47th). It does not happen very often. You might say well it is more important because of evening divisions in the senate. Well, Joe Biden has currently cast 0 votes. The last time we had an equal split in congress was the 107th congress in 2001, and then-vice president Dick Cheney, during his eight years as vice president, cast eight tie breaking votes.
Also I am sure you have noticed the necessity of a so called 'supermajority' to pass recent senate bills. What that does is makes it so the minority party cannot filibuster. However the rise of both the use of the filibuster and the supermajority makes the role of the vice president all the less important
Therefore, Congressman Paul Ryan's role as either Vice President or failed Vice Presidential candidate will probably ultimately decrease his political stock rather than raise it

8:04pm
Brandon A Cox
Well that's good then I suppose. Maybe Romney thinks he's going to lose and chose him for that reason.

8:06pm
Friend A
No, Romney is running on the economy. That is all that matters. Foreign policy and social policy are being cast aside for the moment. Governor Romney wants to cast himself as the president who can fix the debt, defecit, and economy, and as such wanted someone by his side known for working on those problems
In a way it is quite similar to eisenhower's selection of Senator Nixon in 1952, with the major caveat being that Eisenhower was quite a bit more likeable

8:42pm
Friend A
Although I am starting to like his decision a bit more the more I read about Ryan. I will wait to pass judgement for a few days to discover poll results
More to the point, The hell, Jay?

8:48pm
Brandon A Cox
He's probably dead.

8:52pm
Friend A
This is how the series ends
Or hoody takes over

9:18pm
Friend A
OR TIM KILLED EVERYONE

10:57pm
Friend A
Pravado's account allegedly got disabled

10:58pm
Brandon A Cox
Yeah I saw that, had a nice laugh

11:26pm
Friend A
How were the adventures you and Friend B had?

11:32pm
Brandon A Cox
Lots of fun

11:32pm
Friend A
Really?

11:32pm
Brandon A Cox
Totally

11:35pm
Friend A
What'd you guys do

11:37pm
Brandon A Cox
Fun things

11:37pm
Friend A
Such as

11:39pm
Brandon A Cox
Fun things

11:46pm
Friend A
Diablo?
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MesserTod

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Space Police

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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:16 am

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Post Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Vice Presidency sux

Must have been Diablo.

But my point still stands, the vice presidency is not necessarily political suicide, If only because it's rising in power and we've had to relatively recent VPs become presidents later in their career.
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